Lemmings raid guide

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Stuff you need to know when you raid with Lemmings, or: how to prevent asking frequently asked questions :)

Raid leader: Pluto (usually). Always listen to the raid leader - they will explain strategy before each boss and pick toilet break times.

Masterlooter: Wilgje (usually). This means Wilgje picks up all the Zul'Gurub specific items, calls rolls for loot, and appoints looting rules.

You: kick ass! And remember: it's okay if you don't know what to do when we attack a boss. If you have a question, ask! If you feel uncomfortable asking a question in public, feel free to whisper Wilgje or one of the other officers. :)

Please chat in /say before/during boss fights so people can read what the raid leader has to say.
Wilgje will try to bring a repair bot each week for mid-instance repairs.

Looting rules
Green items (bind on equip): you can loot them when you find them.
Green items (bind on pickup) and recipies: Offer them to the group.
Bijous/instance specific items: Are collected by Wilgje and sent to Lemmingsraid (a special guild bank) after the raid. Need one or two for a quest? Just ask an officer.
Epics and blue items: Are rolled for during the raid.

Preparation

Make sure you're experienced in team-play. This means: group with us! Be involved! Show you mean it :) Suggest instances to go to with a group, or join a raid into UBRS. This will not only get you better gear, but it will also help you tune into our group dynamic.
If you have never been with us to an instance, please read the Instance Grouping Guide. If you have time (and energy) look up and read a guide to the raid bosses we will encounter. You may assume we know strategy for the bosses we have done, and we will assume you'll listen to the raid leader :)
Make sure you have twice the normal amount of reagents with you so you will not run out. And remember to make repairs before you come :)

Important
Most instances reset after a set period. This means that if you go to a raid instance, for example Zul'Gurub with a pickup group, or otherwise, you will have to make sure it is not before or after the guild is going (at least, if you're planning on joining us). If you use GroupCalendar, the addon itself will add reset-notifications to your personal calendar. If you do not have the addon you can view the raid calendar on the WoW website.

Lemmings Onyxia gear guide

Lemmings recommended add-ons and their settings

Submitted by Wilgje on August 30, 2006 - 15:12.

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Nice:)

Nice one:) Easy and simple, and especially the looting tips are very usefull.

Submitted by Krisania on August 31, 2006 - 00:41.

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Yes it can get complicated

Yes it can get complicated quickly :) And I think if everyone who comes with us to ZG has read this little 'guide', it'll save me at least fifteen minutes of explaining before we start ;)

Submitted by Wilgje on August 31, 2006 - 00:45.

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Good stuff, Wilgje!

I already made a post on our website about your very well organized guide.

I'm not sure if I agree on the skinning part. We might do it so that everybody skins but delivers the stacks to be split in between guilds - just like we do with herbs - There are also some special skins which you can get only in ZG. Then again, if we do this, it would be logical to do the same with mines?

I suggest that you make another thread for this discussion?

Camillo/Lifebound
- Omg. People must think that I'm colourblind.

Submitted by Camillo on August 31, 2006 - 12:37.

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Just one thing... since

Just one thing... since Bijous are not needed anymore to get the epic class set... what's the point of sending them to bank ?

Submitted by Gilva on August 31, 2006 - 13:08.

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Everyone who joins us on the

Everyone who joins us on the raid, lifebounder or lemming can request a bijou from lemmingsraid. The first bijou you can deliver at Jojimba for a questreward!

---
Potiongirl's grocery bag
Lemmingsraid' goodie bag

Submitted by Keirin on August 31, 2006 - 16:01.

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Please don't start asking

Please don't start asking difficult questions Gilva ;)

Erm... well.. erm.. to get them out of the way? If anyone wants a bijou, they need only ask the Lemmingsraid/Keirin, and they get one. Mostly to save the trouble of dividing them during/after the raid and saving everyone's bag space. :)

Submitted by Wilgje on August 31, 2006 - 15:21.

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nice point Camillo:D

I also wanted to comment on the skinning part, but since it is still under discussion I though I should tell something in-game. I think that dividing the skinned loot between the 2 guilds is better for 2 reasons.

Firstly, 1 run a week is not that often in order all the skinners to have a fair try in skinning there. In addition to this, as I have noticed in some previous instances with skinnable corpses it may take a while for only one to skin everything so if the work is divided between more ppl less of the "precious" time will be consumed in that prossess.

Submitted by Krisania on August 31, 2006 - 15:21.

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Well, I mainly introduced

Well, I mainly introduced this 'rule' as written down in the guide to
- save time
- save confusion
- make it fair
If anyone has a better way of achieving those points, by all means, feel free to share. I'd appreciate it if the skinners could come up with a good way by themselves, btw- organising a well-oiled ZG run is a lot of 'work' next to masterlooting, and as you can imagine I've got other things on my mind as well than who skins what. ;)

Perhaps we can discuss it on lemminglife tonight.

Submitted by Wilgje on August 31, 2006 - 15:27.

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Difficult questions...

Hmmm... yes, I'm still having lots of trouble trying to find a fair solution to divide the bijoux looted...
I'm so glad that the coins are now treated as any other greenie :s

Submitted by Briny on August 31, 2006 - 16:25.

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As I mentioned before, don't

As I mentioned before, don't hesitate to direct any ZG lifebounder to Lemmingsraid.

I don't know how much more stuff your bank can handle, but I can also tranfer half of the Byou's looted and such to the lifebound bank

---
Potiongirl's grocery bag
Lemmingsraid' goodie bag

Submitted by Keirin on September 1, 2006 - 14:37.

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Skinner

If people from both guilds are willing to trust me, I will be happy to be raid skinner and split them between the 2 guilds at the end to the raid,
The way its done atm we are missing some and we need to loot every corpse to make sure whoever skins is able to do so.

Treat others as they treat you...only do it first.

Submitted by Starivan on August 31, 2006 - 16:45.

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Hmm. Do the "special skins"

Hmm. Do the "special skins" only drop when using Finkle's Skinner or something like that (like what happens with the blood scythe)? Otherwise appointing someone to do it sounds good.

Submitted by Wilgje on August 31, 2006 - 17:51.

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perhaps...

There should be a Lemming and a Lifebound appointed skinner, who after the run add up the picked up leather and items and divide them.

You can't just have 1 person skin, because as mentioned before, it takes too much precious time to skin all by yourself.

- bite my shiny metal ass -

Submitted by Odie on September 1, 2006 - 09:33.

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Skinners

The special skins (which we know of) do not require any special tools.

Primal Bat Leather drops from the bats and can be used to make the 3-piece Primal Batskin set items (see the same link), which seem to be most useful for rogues. However, getting the recipes requires honored or for some parts even revered standing among the Zandalar Tribe, and rogues may have better sets already. Still, if someone wants to make these items, the only source for these skins is ZG.

Primal Tiger Leather is needed to make a 2-piece Blood Tiger Harness, which seems to be very nice for a druid (see the same link). Getting the recipes for these requires also honored/revered status.

There may be other special skins too, but these are the ones I encountered on our last run.

In order to make the skinning smooth, everybody who can skin should just do it, if not busy with something else. Skinning will also reveal the corpses which also have loot in them and cannot be skinned, which in case of ZG can have coins or bijous in them, so skinning everything we can is not a bad idea.

When it comes to common rugged or thick leather, I don't know if that should be shared or not. I suspect that the guild banks don't want to deal also with this, and if we share these, we should share thorium too.

I suggest that all the skinners simply skin all they can and nag about the corpses which they can't skin, so that also those get looted. At the end of the run the skinners can put the special skins in one stack and split it in between the guilds, and what to do with them is up to each guild.

For the more common skins we can just ask if anybody in the party needs any for tailoring or other professions - or needs a rugged armor kit or two - and keep what we happen to have after that. The skinners can stay behind to even out the stacks in between themselves, if someone wants that.

I don't believe that any of us tries being a serious ninja skinner, skinning far more than the others just to to get a few extra pieces of rugged leather. As I see it, any other way tho even this out (such as rolling or trying to take turns) would only make things more complex and increase waiting times for the whole raid party.

A designated skinner of the day would easily end up 2-3 groups after the rest of the raid party, filling his/her bags with skins and probably ending up throwing away some, passing rolls or just giving up the whole skinning part. Actually this was pretty much what I experienced on our last run, after having won the first roll for skinning, being unsure if this roll was just for the first patch of skins, standing on the stars right inside the entrance and trying in vain to get somebody to loot a snake with loot in it, while Pluto was already charging the 3rd or 4th party ahead with the rest of the raid (btw, in the end Gilva looted a coin from that particular snake).

This was just my 2 cents, please feel free to comment it and come with other ways to do this smoothly. Whatever we find out, it's far better to agree on this beforehands - trying to discuss this in the beginning of a run is just plain hopeless, as well as consuming everybody's precious and often too limited ZG time.

This became bloody lengthy. I suspected that and that's why I suggested a new thread for this skinning discussion. :P

Camillo/Lifebound
- Omg. People must think that I'm colourblind.

Submitted by Camillo on September 1, 2006 - 12:01.

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Skinners

I have some pretty strong personal views about skinning in raids, lets give you all my view.

As a skinner you are making your living with it, just like others with their professions. As a skinner I share possible loot among other skinners, just like miners are doing when they find some mineral vein. Therefore I dislike the option of collecting and sharing among guilds. One of the guilds could have more skinners in the current party, and skinners come and go as ppl being replaced while running the instance, so this could be very hard to make a fair division among guilds.

This is my proposal:

Skinning of trashmobs is divided evenly among the skinners that are currently in the instance. When we killed some mobs there will be always a short periode of rebuffing, renewing and idle-ing so there will be plenty of time to skin. Which skinner skinns which mob and howmany is easlily calculated:

Count the mobs on the floor, devide this among the number of skinners, round the outcomming down.

This must be simple enough. As skinners you keep an eye out on your fellow skinners, and always try to stay modest and humble... better to argue who should (not you) skin the last mob than who wants (always you) to skin the last mob :) We have done this quite a few times and this worked quite nice.

Discussion can easely be done with whispers (usualy there are 2 or 3 skinners) or sometimes the skinners can diside to open up their very own skinning channel! (Just like the leet buffers and healers have!)

Deviding of bosses can be done by a roll... This can be done fairly quickly after the drops have been rolled, or among the skinners in their own channel.

If a skinner feels mistreated by any other skinner he or she sould speak up and discuss that, in person during the instance, or after the instance as a group of skinners.

Counting the number of skinners is crucial for the division. Every skinner should state clearly that one wants to skin when there is a call for skinners or when a skinner enters the instance later. Even a skinner which have stated that he will pass on the first line of trashmobs can later on state that he wants to skin from there.

When a skinner doest have the time to skin or doesnt want to skin another skinner will usualy clean up the 'waist' he or she left. This comes rather natural to skinners to leave no valuables behind :) This will take its natural cause and no one will be doomed for leaving one skin behind.

There are two obstacles in this proposal. First of all, every mob needs to be looted. Secondly, the skinners must be considerate for their fellow skinners. With a bit of help from the rest and some guidance from the raid leader the looting issue would be no problem. I hope that the second comes naturaly for guildies from Lifebound and Lemmings.

These were my 2cents. Enjoy commenting me :)

Orbald
Lemmings of the Light

Submitted by Orbald on September 1, 2006 - 23:26.

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This sounds like quite a lot

This sounds like quite a lot of hassle really, in a raid where people should be concentrated on the mobs and on the general status of the other party members, this just seems like too much stuff to be concerned about, Idea: Skin all the loots by all skinners *but* after the raid is done, let the skinners roll for the (ZG-special) spoils, and who rolls highest can keep it!
---
Potiongirl's grocery bag
Lemmingsraid' goodie bag

Submitted by Keirin on September 2, 2006 - 15:36.

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Skinning in ZG

I'm all for trying to make this as fair as possible, but at the same time I want to make this as smooth as possible. Rolling for the bosses is ok, it's more like a special honour, but skinning channels, whispers etc. sound like much work to lazy old me, and more imprtantly, all extra typing is taking our focus from what else is happening - or being told by the raid leader.

I was suggesting that we share only the special skins in between guilds - in the same manner as herbalists do with the ZG-only herbs - and that skinners can do a final count when we are done in the instance, and split the usual type skins evenly in between themselves.

Of course, this must be agreed on beforehands, but in a way being there and skinning these beasts is part of being with the raid party. I don't think that I would manage to solo a single mob in ZG myself - and live to skin it.

We don't have any leatherworkers in Lifebound, who has good enough rep (if any) among the Zandalar Tribe. Also if you read the above thottbot links, the demand for these special skins in AH is almost non-existent. Collecting these to common stacks would make it possible for someone some day to make an item which needs these, if that day ever comes.

In my experience, if we have more than 2 skinners in the party, keeping track of turns becomes obscure after a while. As far as I'm concerned, you can try functioning as a "master skinner" who keeps count on who's turn it is with help of a pen and a piece of paper, instead of that every skinner is trying to pay attention to it, agreeing, disagreeing, asking and answering after every little skirmish with skinnable mobs, when there may be many other tasks to be done during the breaks - rebuffing, resurrecting, summoning, making more water or bread; rolling for the goodies and looting the quest items from the bosses.

I'm serious about this, we might try it out on the next run, if you want to, and if it requires joining to a separate channel, no big deal, as long as we have a system that doesn't require too much of everybody's time. As an alternative I still suggest free-for-all skinning during the run, and afterwards sharing the normal skins evenly in between the skinners - not the guilds - as an extra quick gathering after the run. If the special skins are an issue, you may keep yours, as far as I'm concerned. We can as well make this as a voluntary option for each skinner, myself I don't mind getting rid of yet-another-stack-of-something-potentially-useful material. As a matter of fact, I was already considering to ask if also Lifebound can dump these in Lemmingsbank for a common ZG special leather storage.

I'm also interested collecting all the useful resources there is, and leaving an unskinned mob behind annoys me - especially if there's potentially valuable loot inside of it as well.

As the last comment, I have tried many professions as a source for income, but so far I've paid 3 epic mounts with mainly completing quests on lvl 60, and I'm working on the 4th atm.

I'll try to check on this page for comments yet before tomorrow's run. Anyway, we'd better agree on this when the run starts, but because I haven't managed to file a request to Blizzard to move the Fishing Extravaganza to some other day and time yet, I will probably arrive a little bit late, so feel free to agree on the practice with the other skinners, I'll go with the flow when I join in. Then again, depending on the party setup, I may need to join in with a non-skinning character, and this practice will be irrelevant.

Camillo/Lifebound
- Omg. People must think that I'm colourblind.

Submitted by Camillo on September 2, 2006 - 19:42.

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Kvark's idea of skinning

lol- well, your idea sounds good. Let's see if the other skinners can agree to it and we have a plan! :)

Submitted by Wilgje on September 1, 2006 - 13:04.

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Um, the stuff I send to

Um, the stuff I send to Lemmingsraid is already half of what was looted :) The other half gets sent to Lifebank Keirin :)

Submitted by Wilgje on September 1, 2006 - 16:45.

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Oh lol.. didn't realise

Oh lol.. didn't realise that, so many Bijou's XD

---
Potiongirl's grocery bag
Lemmingsraid' goodie bag

Submitted by Keirin on September 1, 2006 - 22:46.

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Sorted !

The skinning went pretty well yesterday along with the rest of what turned out to be a good learning run.

At the finish it was myself Kris and Orbold with skins to share, which we found was easier to give all to Orbold and he then shared them out, Its just a question of trust which to be fair should not be hard for us.
As for the Primal skins ! atm I have no need for them and they appear to be worth very little on the AH so if the Guilds want them kept I am happy to donate mine, as of last night I now have a total of 5 Bat and 5 Tiger.
I must admit though I share Camillo's frustration at people not looting all mobs,It takes 3 seconds to do, so come on people help us out here :)

Treat others as they treat you...only do it first.

Submitted by Starivan on September 4, 2006 - 09:54.

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Good to hear that it was OK.

Good to hear that it was OK as suggested. Of course, when the raid party breaks up, everyone is usually feeling busy to leave somewhere and the sorting out the leather loot part is an extra operation fo the skinners. However, I believe that this is easier than trying to keep count and pay attention who's skinning what all the way.

Even if I ended up playing a non-skinning character on this run, I was giving it a thought in occasions when there were lots of bats, snakes or tigers to be skinned, and I'm convinced that this way is the best way to get most of the materials gathered with as little hassle as possible.

I would call it more being annoyed than frustrated - not only because of the skinning, but also the trash mobs are ZG elites and can drop coins, bijous or other valuables, so looting them is a good idea in general. Of course, everyone is eager to get further and do his/her part of the next attack, so it's easy to oversee loot, specially when you get to loot only every 20th mob. However, we have to have a nice way to ask people to check the unlooted mobs. In many occasions those which were my loot were just empty, but one never knows, I got a coin too.

Btw, if any of you skinners want "Enchant Gloves - Skinning" (+5 skinning skill enchant) on a pair of gloves, just farm the required 3 Green Whelp Scales from the green dragon whepls in the Swamp of Sorrows, and Ombroso will fix that for you. Briny has this recipe too, maybe Wilgje as well. Ombroso has a pile of vision dust atm, so he can provide it for free. If you don't want this enchant to your best parade gloves, get another pair which you use only when trying to skin lvl 61 mobs (which require 305 in skinning).

Let's hope that when we finally get Thekal down, he will drop the Zulian Slicer.

Camillo/Lifebound
- Omg. People must think that I'm colourblind.

Submitted by Camillo on September 4, 2006 - 14:25.

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Raid Timer/Dungeons Reset

In a way, I feel like this topic has nothing to do with the current discussion (skinning)... but the main title says "the LoL ZG guide" so I guess that it can't be wrong either :P

I've posted the Dungeons Reset calendar on the Lifebound forum. Some of us didn't know that instances such as ZG and above reset at fixed days.

Submitted by Briny on September 4, 2006 - 14:34.

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wow... thx:)

really thx for the calendar thingie. very useful. I did know that your progress in some instances is saved but I didn't know how the programme for reseting looked like.
As far as the skinning is concerned I was sure that it would go well as it's something minor compared to the whole point of the raid. The enchant is nice too. I guess I'll be gathering some reagents now for it:D

Submitted by Krisania on September 4, 2006 - 15:01.

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Krisania: I can also enchant

Krisania: I can also enchant it as well, but as I was sponsoring someone's enchanting leveling (Lizze, please go to him for free guild enchants) I have run out of vision dust. :)

Thanks for mentioning that Briny, I have added that to the guide (hadn't gotten around to it yet). I have also entered the skinning rule into the guide.

Submitted by Wilgje on September 4, 2006 - 15:05.

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