Home

User login

Who's online

There are currently 0 users and 4 guests online.

Who's new

  • wPAI_gMKS
  • dmitry911
  • Antilles
  • Critta
  • Lucidin

Syndicate

XML feed

Karazhan Invite List (KIL) - our unique Karazhan invite system explained

Last week Wilgje already shortly explained how we think is the best way to give everyone a fair chance to go to Karazhan. In this post I'd like to show how this system will work in practise, by giving a step-by-step example. Please make sure you read and understand this system before we start raiding. At this moment we have just enough players to fill a raid, but in a few months time there will be more interested players than raid space. Therefore we have come up with this system to give everyone a fair chance to join, independent of their playing time. If anything is not clear yet, don't hesitate to ask your questions in this thread! (read more)

NOTE: The list used below is FICTIVE!


EXAMPLE 1:
Before the first raid, per role (tanking/healing/dps) a randomized list of attuned players will be generated. The aim is to have two tanks, three healers and five dps'ers per raid. The first players from every role (in bold) are given priority for the upcoming raid.



EXAMPLE 2:
Unfortunately Idlewild, Matmag and Lleu cannot come. For their specific role the people with the highest position on the list will now be given priority. So in this example those people are Pluto for the tanking and Wushi and Redhenry for the dps role.



EXAMPLE 3:
All players that have joined the last raid week (one reset period) are now placed at the end of the list. Idlewild, Matmag and Lleu couldn't come during the last raid, so their position on the list remains fixed and they will be on top now.



IMPORTANT NOTES:

  • When invites start or when searching for replacements, people that actually signed up before the raid will be given priority, even if they are lower on the list.
  • When a player X wants to be replaced during a raid by player Y, player Y will not lose his position on the list. Because player Y could only attend the raid partly, and because he was helpful towards player X (and the rest of the raid), he should not be 'punished' by being placed at the end of the list afterwards.
  • When a new player gets Karazhan-attuned he will be put at the end of the list at the end of the reset period, followed by the players that played during the last week.
  • When there is a shortage of a certain role, for example healers, the highest notated hybrid player of another role's list will be given priority to fill the spot. Per raid the officers will decide if it's necessary to ask players to play a different role then they are used to, to prevent that the raid needs to be cancelled.
  • One of the officers in the raid keeps track of all participating players and will update the list on the website after the second raiding day every week. So during one reset period, the list won't change. People that can't come during the first or second raid day will be replaced by the highest notated people on the invite list. However, if for example the number 1 on the dps list can come on Sunday only, he will get priority over the number 6 on the list that took his place during Wednesday's raid, to prevent that it will become impossible to join Sunday raids only.
  • If a player has one or more alts that are Karazhan-attuned as well, all characters of this player will go to the bottom of the list when he has joined a raid with one of these characters. This is to prevent that a player can come with another character every raid, which would make it harder for players with only one character to join.
  • When updating the list, players that have joined only one raid during the last week will be placed at the bottom of the list first, followed by players who have joined two runs. So in practise that will mean that players that have joined only one run will end up higher on the updated list, and thus will be able to join a new raid sooner.
  • If a player decides to respec to another role, he will be moved to the end of the list for his new role.
  • It's 'Karazhan', not 'Kharazan'.

printer-friendly version | next forum topic | printer friendly version

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.

Thanks for posting Babyphon

 

Thanks for posting Babyphon :)

Wilgje's picture
» login to post comments

Looks complicated but fair.

 

Looks complicated but fair. The healers have a sure advantage though ^^;

"It's 'Karazhan', not 'Kharazan'."

Rofl *makes cat hissing noises*

---
Potiongirl's grocery bag
Lemmingsraid' goodie bag

Keirin's picture
» login to post comments

It's in fact the most

 

It's in fact the most simple system that is still fair towards all players. The main idea to remember is:
"Play now and go to the end of the list, or don't play and climb on the list."

Players that want to raid often can join often, but if a more casual player wants to join only once per two months, he will be most likely on top of the list so he will be able to join as well then. I realize that healers and tanks might be able to join a bit more often, but there we will simply need a certain amount of tanking and healing power to keep the raid realistic and fun.

» login to post comments

Sounds good to me, indeed

 

Sounds good to me, indeed fair to everyone who plays, frequently or less frequently.

I do encourage officers updating the list asap every time, so people will have no problem planning ahead for the next raid.

lleu's picture
» login to post comments

Inspired by Lleu's remark

 

Inspired by Lleu's remark about updating the list, I'd like to clarify one more thing:

Karazhan is resetted every Wednesday morning. Our first raid day will be Wednesday evening, and the second raid day will be Sunday afternoon. The invite list will be updated only after the second raid day. Why? Because people that helped clearing the first part of Karazhan on Wednesday will get the chance to finish the thing that they've worked very hard for on Sunday then. So everyone will get the chance to get as far as possible in Karazhan during one reset period. People that can't come during the first or second raid day will be replaced by the highest notated people on the invite list. However, if for example the number 1 on the dps list can come on Sunday only, he will get priority over the number 6 on the list that took his place during Wednesday's raid, to prevent that it will become impossible to join Sunday raids only.

» login to post comments

Great Post!

 

Do we have the official release of the table yet or is this it?

one thing i wanted to check.. is the table based on the people themselves OR the characters? EG when ppl have to chars attuned when they run with one char will both drop to the bottom of the table?.. Also i know that this is an example but Idlewild just wondered if discourage needs to be on there as his attuned too :)...

But the way it looks also is that we aren't far away from two groups being able to go, but i presume the system will still work the same even with several groups, and u will just go through the table quicker...

----------------------------------------------------------------
May Your strength be as strong as your armour!

Beatemgood's picture
» login to post comments

This example is not based on

 

This example is not based on the current situation, it's just based on how the list might look in a few months time.

The current list will be generated just before the first raid next Wednesday, to give people the chance to get attuned during the next few days. At the moment only 9 people are attuned (including Disc's alt), so that's why I chose to use a fictive list in this example to clarify the system better.

Good point about the alt-issue. I'm not sure yet how to deal with it yet. Both options you've mentioned have pros and cons, so I'll discuss it today.

» login to post comments

Thanks Baby!

 

Thanks baby!

Have fun!

Beatemgood's picture
» login to post comments

Seems good

 

Seems like a good system to me. And thanks for making it easy to understand Baby :)

» login to post comments

SK = love

 

I've experienced the SK system with AUE/TSF runs, and it works like a charm. It's ideal for casual raiding and really helps make it fair for everyone.

As for the raiding slots, it's easy to maintain this manually, but I would imagine that for the loot addons might be handy to use for the RL/ML?

Perhaps Naina might have some tips on this?

- bite my shiny metal ass -

» login to post comments

Looting will just be on

 

Looting will just be on rolling, as there won't be too many people fighting for the same class items. :) So just using loothog for that. The biggest issue for us was making sure people get to attend runs if they want to, and don't get left behind.

Wilgje's picture
» login to post comments

I think ML+rolling has

 

I think ML+rolling has always worked well for us, and honestly doesn't need changing.

We don't really have any loot whores in the guild and I think this works to our advantage.

The only concern I have with the system is who is going to lead each raid - with the jumbling up of players it would seem that there might be occasions where a group has no members with experience in it - thus making it harder for them to deal with the encounters.

Of course that issue resolves itself over time.

Pluto
"Need More Rage!"

Pluto's picture
» login to post comments

We've discussed the

 

We've discussed the alt-issue that was mentioned by Beatemgood, and we've come with this solution (also added to the list of notes on top):

"If a player has one or more alts that are Karazhan-attuned as well, all characters of this player will go to the bottom of the list when he has joined a raid with one of these characters. This is to prevent that a player can come with another character every raid, which would make it harder for players with only one character to join."

» login to post comments

When will it be confirmed

 

When will it be confirmed who is due to go on the run tomorrow night?

» login to post comments

We'd like to give some more

 

We'd like to give some more people the chance to get attuned tonight, so I will randomize the list tomorrow morning and then compare it with the list of people that signed up to come with the definitive first raid.

At this moment 5 tanks (including Disc's alt), 3 healers and 5 dps are attuned. But I think some more will get attuned when they will manage to finish Black Morass tonight.

For upcoming raids I think it's wise to come up with a closing time for the sign-up one day before the raid takes place, to prevent that someone suddenly can't join because someone higher on the list did a last-minute sign-up. Nothing has been decided upon that yet though.

» login to post comments

As I said in guildchat, I

 

As I said in guildchat, I don't mind allowing other raiders precedence this week :) Or going out of the raid if no raid leading able person is present, in favor of one.

As far as raid leadership goes, Pluto has always been an excellent raid leader- I've recently detected talent in Babyphon as well, and Beatemgood said he wouldn't mind giving it a try :)
So perhaps we can have those alternating a bit. :)

Wilgje's picture
» login to post comments

I've added a note about how

 

In order to make the invite system more fair towards players that can only join one run during a specific reset period, I've added a note about how we will handle this:

"When updating the list, players that have joined only one raid during the last week will be placed at the bottom of the list first, followed by players who have joined two runs. So in practise that will mean that players that have joined only one run will end up higher on the updated list, and thus will be able to join a new raid sooner."

» login to post comments

even the ones who attend on

 

even the ones who attend on a sunday to fill in the gaps?

» login to post comments

If you attend on sunday to

 

If you attend on sunday to fill in the gaps, you'll only have gone once, not twice :) If someone has gone on wednesday, and on sunday too, there's no gap filling ;)

Wilgje's picture
» login to post comments

But before it was stated is

 

But before it was stated is someone joined on a Sunday to help fill the gaps they wouldn't be moved down the list because they were just helping out. Is that still the case or will they now be moved down but not as far down as people who attend it twice?

» login to post comments

like Ninnut i think this

 

like Ninnut i think this needs clarification. does this mean fill in's? because if that is the case then nobody will want to fill in as they will also drop on the list....

but @ the same time i am thinking this only counts for people that were due to go in on that reset period, and if they can only make one day out of the two days then they will drop first so they can get back in sooner.

can we have a clarification on which statement is correct :)

Beatemgood's picture
» login to post comments

I think it's clarified here

 

I think it's clarified here in a comment of Babyphon's.

You can imagine this can get as confusing for you as it can get for us, but in the end the goal is to have a fair system for everyone. I know some people are very raid-minded but this is a casual guild, and to be honest "nobody will want to fill in" because of this system.. I don't know. I sure know I'd fill in to help my guildmates, no matter of my place in the system, and the idea of people leaving others in the cold just to preserve some place in the system to perhaps go twice.. pfft. If everyone behaves like that, there will never be a second raid day anyway!

Wilgje's picture
» login to post comments

don't get me wrong, i

 

don't get me wrong, i understand the why behind it and the "nobody will want to fill in" is just an example of on how we can clarify it! :), and i understood it from Baby's original comment that you have linked!, this just seemed another change from the original post (that could be the way we have read it thou), but if it is staying the same with just the way people drop on the list if they can only make one day changing, then this seems very fair!

I understand that this is a difficult thing to arrange and don't envy the officers job on this one ;), myself and other people are just trying to understand the systems, so you must expect questions!. This is in no way trying to change the way lemmings raid!, its for pure understanding of the system that we are running with!.

Beatemgood's picture
» login to post comments

No, I know, it's just that I

 

No, I know, it's just that I wanted to share my view on things ;)
We're going to make a FAQ one of these days out of all the questions, hopefully everything will be cleared up then.

Wilgje's picture
» login to post comments

Some misunderstanding here

 

I think there is some misunderstanding about what 'gap-filling' means.

The signups for both raid days are treated completely indepently. However, the invite-list remains the same for both raid days and only changes at the end of the reset-period. Therefore the same highest ranked players will get priority during both raiding days. If one of these priority players doesn't sign up for one or both raid days, the next highest ranked player on the list gets the chance to join. So for a dps-spot that would be number 6 on the list.

If you are 6th on the dps-list and can join a raid because one of the first five players didn't sign up, that's not 'gap-filling'. That's just being part of the five highest players on the list that signed up, and you'll get treated like everyone else who joined one raid that week (or two raids if you would have joined the other day already). We only speak about 'gap-filling' or replacement when someone suddenly has to leave a raid before it has ended, and this player will need to be replaced.

So everyone who has joined a certain raid from the start (independent of your position on the list) will be placed at the bottom of the list at the end of the reset period. However, players who have joined only 1 raid-day will be moved first, followed by players who have joined both days.

So in short: if you are in the priority-range of the list, a spot in the raid will be guaranteed as long as you sign up. If you are not in the priority-range, you will only be able to join when one (or more, depending on your position on the list) of the priority-players doesn't sign up. But you are not a 'gap-filler' then. ;)

Hope this clarifies it a bit more. Like Wilgje said, things can appear to be a bit complex and therefore we'll compose a FAQ soon, based on all the questions in the comments. :)

» login to post comments

^^

 

Cheers Baby! I think its was just the "gap-filling" that was confusing ppl :)

Beatemgood's picture
» login to post comments

Recent comments

2005-2007 (c) Lemmings of the Light / Layout Wilgje based on the Aquasoft layout for drupal / Header image Keirin of Aszune